Comments about this summary can be posted to our ongoing Mexico ecotourism discussion list or sent via private email to Ron Mader -- email.

Ron Mader, Webhost
Planeta.com
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1) How can we get around the problem of lack of effective participation of local communities in the management and the economic benefits from community tourism?

Joe Cummings

Speaking as a journalist who has visited many supposedly "local" tourism projects organized by well meaning outsiders with stated social/environmental missions, I think this is a very key question without a simple answer. My general observation, based on limited experience, has been that as soon as the outsiders leave, over a relatively short time the program either fades away completely or degrades into a product that is basically of no interest to most of the market for this kind of tourism.

The most obvious explanation is that this has to do with the wide cultural and educational gap between program designers or coordinators and community residents. There follows a gap between conception and design, on the one hand, and implementation, on the other. At least that is how it looks from the outside.

Joe Cummings

Or another question: can any kind of national coordination and management scheme effectively contribute to facilitating and stimulating small-scale social tourism, given the gap I've observed? I suppose if national coordinators/managers were to come and live in the target community for a few years, there might a tighter fit between objectives and results in the end. That's not realistic, of course.

Jim Conrad

I believe that a decentralized approach taking full advantage of modern communications should be an important part of the answer. In this context I believe that one prime duty for a "national coordinator," which I assume would be a governmental agency and/or NGO, would be to facilitate communications between small-scale operators and potential clients, when that is called for.

Here I am thinking of truly small operators, much smaller than Ken Johnson's wonderful operation which employs several people. Mainly I'm thinking of the one-man or one-woman operation -- maybe a fellow who has a boat and would be glad to earn some extra cash, perhaps part-time, running river trips. Such a person would be unlikely to have an e-mail address and a web site unless one of the "national coordinators" helped. At EarthFoot, for instance, we promote some tribal homestays in Tanzania, where a network of villages has been organized by a Dutch NGO, and today the NGO relays messages between people who want to visit these villages, and the villagers themselves who will take care of the visitors.

We have another host in South Africa who lives in a traditional Masai village. Once a week he gets into his old pickup truck and goes to town on a dirt road and checks his e-mail at the local cybercafe. We've sent him some clients so the system seems to work. I have a friend in the Yucatan right now sending me mail each day from different cybercafes so this is certainly a workable strategy there, too.

Cellular phones might also fit in here but I'm unclear about their potential in Mexico.

One red flag raised by my reply is sure to be that of the problem of assuring that very small-scale operators who may be working tours part-time maintain high standards with their offerings. EarthFoot has been designed to deal with that problem by assuring that visitors exchange e-mails with hosts before trips take place. Visitors are encouraged to ask probing questions to see how the host answers. Also, accompanying each program page we provide a "host biography page," where potential visitors can read about the host's background, often see a picture of the host, and can see what kind of information the host has provided. Sometimes the host dryly provides nothing but a list of degrees, other times they pour their hearts out. Also, we provide a "feedback section" where visitors can report upon their experiences once they return. In short, our "quality control" is also decentralized, banking on the theory that anyone sharp enough to want an ecotour is sharp enough to tell whether the person they're communicating with is a dud or not. So far the system has worked.

Joe Cummings

Personally, I think more longitudinal case studies need to be undertaken to find out what all the factors are, before this question can be satisfactorily answered.

My only question is should ecotourism cost more than regular tourism in the same manner that organic produce cost more. This concept that ecotourism should only be budget travel or that investments in ecotourism should not focus on profits is self defeating. With due respects to some budget "people to people" programs, all arguments about any aspect of ecotourism are a moot point if you do not have any sales or profits. True ecotourism begins with better salaries to all employees and a more equal distribution of profits on down the line. The costs of operation and promotion of little known areas are higher and more difficult when up against well organized government ecotourism marketing efforts like Costa Rica, Belize, New Zealand and Australia to name a few. It was only after we made profits, that we increased the sustainable aspects of our operations and were able to make more contributions to conservation efforts. We need to explore methods to control our costs of promotion.

Questions from Steve Bridger

I wonder how things may change with the new Mexico Tourist Board in place?

Questions from Kenneth Johnson

Why aren't web sites like Travelon, IExplore, Away.com accepting Mexican companies in their site?

What will happen to trade shows and travel agencies as the Internet advances?

Questions from Ross Mitchell

How are such tourism-dependent communities in Mexico adjusting to global and local pressures of rapidly changing market demands and flexible production/service processes?

What negative or positive impacts on social and environmental sustainability as related to ecotourism can be attributable to NAFTA?

Is there a shift to less resource-intensive economic activities such as ecotourism and other specialty products/services due to global or even regional pressures to diversify economies and reduce possibilities for environmental impacts?

Questions from Ron Mader

Who are the ecotourists? It seems that statistics about ecotourism -- or alternative tourism -- are notoriously unreliable, but do we have *any* information about who the tourists are who in search for Mexican ecotourism activities/destinations?

What financing is available for ecotourism development in Mexico? This is the question that I am asked quite frequently. Unfortunately, I don't have a good answer. I know the Fondo Mexicano Para la Conservacion para la Naturaleza initially funded part of the work for the Parque San Nicolas, but I don't know what the foundation is doing now. What is the World Bank doing? Banobras? Anyone else?

Antonio Suarez

During the last 2 years Balam has worked continiously with forestry programs from SEMARNAP, PRODEFOR. Several times officials had mention that they do not receive as many proposals as they want to develop not logging forest products. Ejidos and Comunidades do receive directly year grants.

Juan Carlos Ibarra

We have worked with every possible kind of funding. We have found that huge financial sources are way too complicated and take too long to answer, this is a big problem because communities do not have a lot of patience and are easily discouraged by long waits.

To us, the best source of money have been programs like PRODEFOR. Also CORENA has supported our work in Mexico City. Programs funded by the government that aim towards the development of productive programs work well. They grant little money, but true sustentablility must be able to make do with small budgets and limeted amounts of time...

Donna Rudolph

In the state of Yucatan, The Yucatan Cultural Foundation received a small grant from the foundation of a Mexican Bank, Banamex, and later from the Inter American Bank, to help a community of 150 Mayan families with various projects, one of which is to prepare them for the arrival of tourists that is expected when the archaeological site which the village men have worked at for ten years is opened to the public--early in 2001 at latest. The part of the project most related to ecotourists is preparing them a place to stay so they can have the sense of being in the midst of a contempory community that has a great heritage and its own personality. The village is the reconditioning the former archaeologists' camp into several cabanas for guests. The Foundation is also training those who will be expected to be guides and the persons designated to be cooks. The expect and want only small groups. The expectation is that ecotour operators or university outdoor recreation departments will want to know something about the past of the village, its still standing, still in use 17th century Spanish Franciscan church, visit the new Mayan site, and overnight in the cabanas. The natural attractions are the forest which belongs in common to the community, a beautiful cenote (natural well/cavern in the limestone crust), and a trail to a nearby ruined hacienda. The most prized possession of the ejido (community) is a segment of the Sac Be (the white way, limestone causeway) built by the ancient Maya to connect great centers of commerce, government and religion, which connects the archaeological site of their community (it is of course under supervision of INAH) to Coba in neighboring Quintana Roo. Several years before the present cabana construction, the women of the village were organized in a sewing and craft cooperative. They presently produce very handsome woodcarved animals which the Foundation has found markets for in and around Merida.

In Quintana Roo, the hotel association funding source - Fideicomiso de la Promocion Turistica de la Riviera Maya is supporting an initiative to develop trails in the nearby forests, and to work with communities that desire to have visitors, to integrate the trails and the communities in outdoor experiences to be offered to hikers and off road cyclists. The beach hotels would "share" the vacation nights with the interior, to meet the expectations for adventure of those who want to be in the outback, and not simply spend all their time baking on beaches.

Where is the clientelle based? Is it domestic or international? In the case of Punta Allen, Quintana Roo, most of its visitors came fron USA and Canada sharing and important percentage Europeans tourists mainly Germans, British, French and Italians. It is the almost the same for San Juan de Dios. But in the case of Xcalak I was surprised to find in their informal statistics that Europe and Japan were sources of tourists to this community.

What profiles are typical for the clientelle? Most of these tourists (ecotourits?) are looking rather natural areas with plenty of virginal sites, original landscapes, traditional Mayan cultures, learning experiences with local villagers, and peacefull places where to rest comfortably. On the other hand, villagers are willing to meet mature and well educated tourists as well wealthy visitors.

Questions from Karen Wantland

How many ecotourism projects exist in Mexico where besides the preservation of the resources, the community people manage the project and make money from it?

Are there national politics to regulate the activity, so that not everyone can use the word "ecotourism"?

Questions from Enrique Cabanilla

I know there are a lot of people doing something, and it was a pleasure for me to read some of them, but the question remains -- Does Sectur and Mexico's government support a strong policy?

Walter Bishop

Sectur is well intentioned, but it has its own problems, I also believe that Sectur was created more as a promotional vehicle than a regulatory body, we really should not expect the government to regulate the field, we are all grown ups and should be able to do it ourselves and if not, the forces of marketing come into effect and if your company is not good, it usually goes down.

Are natural areas well protected?

Walter Bishop

No they are not, not only do we lack the culture necessary to care of nature, but again the urgency of survival in which some rural communities live, expose everything to consumption, I was recently in a Biosphere Reserve where I conducted a study for an ecotourism project, and I was really surprised. A portion of the Reserve including part of the nucleus, had been donated by the government to an ethnic group and in about a year they had devastated the area in such a way, that it was incredible, there were no more white-tailed deer, boars turkeys, raptors and even the population of little birds were down, at this time they are cutting down the pine trees for lumber and the oak trees for paper pulp in such an indiscriminate fashion that in a few, very few years they will have destroyed the flora as well.

I believe that as long as large portions of the population of the country live in a sub standard way (not eating properly) all the efforts to help local rural communities will be monumental struggles, and it will not be till these people are partially satisfied in their needs, that ecotourism projects will begin to prosper in a more orderly manner. Which was first the chicken or the egg?

What kind of media are suitable to promote ecotourism projects?

Questions from Rogelio Velasco

Let's look at Shel-Ha or Xcaret, let's look to Las Estacas in Morelos. Are these developments wrong? Did local people have any benefit from this development?

My romanticism claims for locals to develop their own resourses in a "Socialist" model, cooperatives or comunas. How can locals develop their property with no money, no experience, no technology, no management capabilities and with outsiders pushing cooperative or comunal models that have shown, in the last 30 years, fail 90%? They only have natural skills and natural beauty but they need to build. From my experience they need to join venture with tour operators and companies to get the resourses that they need. They most have the right to do small private business, increase competition with in the ejido. Give the same opportunities to every one. Not all of them will participate because many are deep in alcohol, or just have a different interest. That is why cooperatives and comunas have problems, because not every one participates. Is it wrong to have private small business in Ecoturism?

How can we avoid the crowds in these spots? Only one option comes to my mind, keep developing ecological operations and hope that population growth stops at some point.

Questions from Antonio Suarez

What I like to see in this conference? 1.- I will be pleased to find community tourism projects and operators related with agriculture, migratition and other local interest issues in stead of operators only searching for markets.

2. How can we develop volunteers programs in Mexico? Balam is actually working with 9 different community organized groups in central Mexico.

3. Finally, I want to hear about accesible projects where tourism can directly contribute to the community projects with out having the great investments like; golden dream of "cabañas", or NGOs which do all the conections including fund rising, etc. Ecoturism is developing just as private property. To fight back this tendency Balam is producing maps of this communities, their territories, trails and main geographical and cultural atractives, if this GIS could be included in guide books Mexico´s ecoturism will fastly develop it self, we can see that the lack of information is been part of the business for some operators and this lack of specific information limits affluence of autonomus travelers in to rural areas.

Related Planeta.com Pages

Book: Mexico: Adventures in Nature
Mexico Travel Services
Exploring Mexico City -
Exploring Ecotourism in the Americas Resource Guide
Mexico Ecotourism Network/Red Mexicana de Ecoturismo

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